The 'Woman' Issue From a Young Pro

I have been in advertising/marketing for over three years now, since college, and have worked with more women than men. The newspaper I came from consisted of 11 other saleswomen and two men Directors. I do have to say that it did seem like a good old boys club around the corporate floor though. I now am a Senior Account Executive and work with one other women... the owner and designer of our marketing firm. We work hand in hand and it is the best move I have ever made. We seem to have the presentation process locked down. We also stay on the same page and keep our clients in perspective. I also network constantly through groups and am a co-chairwomen for our chamber's women's group. I too agree that it is a support system that teaches other women to get out there and to open up to others. Men are invited... but never come =). I am only 26, but have had no problems with my gender in the work place and feel more empowered by my personality and outgoing creative attitude.

I have been in advertising/marketing for over three years now, since college, and have worked with more women than men. The newspaper I came from consisted of 11 other saleswomen and two men Directors. I do have to say that it did seem like a good old boys club around the corporate floor though. I now am a Senior Account Executive and work with one other women... the owner and designer of our marketing firm. We work hand in hand and it is the best move I have ever made. We seem to have the presentation process locked down. We also stay on the same page and keep our clients in perspective. I also network constantly through groups and am a co-chairwomen for our chamber's women's group. I too agree that it is a support system that teaches other women to get out there and to open up to others. Men are invited... but never come =). I am only 26, but have had no problems with my gender in the work place and feel more empowered by my personality and outgoing creative attitude.

Hmmm. I always start reading posts like this with a little bit of trepidation, wondering just where it is going to go. Regarding the idea of a "gender gap" in blogging, tech, IT, PR, teaching or firefighting, my response is to think "So what?" rather than look for some conspiracy or agenda. Why is there a need for 'balance' in representation in any field? In particular I don't hear anyone clamoring for more women working on crab-fishing boats in the Bering Sea... Anyone with eyes to see should be aware of the amazing advances in equality of opportunity for all people in education and choice of profession, however it seems to me that many people get hung up on a perceived inequality of outcome. People are different. They make different choices for different reasons. That is the simple explanation for the numbers. *However* - Geoff Livingston was on-the-money when he pointed out that snub and you are pretty close with "Women and especially young girls need to be encouraged to take more risks, to start their own projects, to study mathematics, and to be innovators in technology. Women are not being challenged and encouraged enough in these areas." I would submit that everyone needs to be encouraged to take more risks and accept more responsibility for what happens in their lives. And we should all pay more attention to the content of a person's character rather than the composition of their chromosomes.

Hmmm. I always start reading posts like this with a little bit of trepidation, wondering just where it is going to go. Regarding the idea of a "gender gap" in blogging, tech, IT, PR, teaching or firefighting, my response is to think "So what?" rather than look for some conspiracy or agenda. Why is there a need for 'balance' in representation in any field? In particular I don't hear anyone clamoring for more women working on crab-fishing boats in the Bering Sea... Anyone with eyes to see should be aware of the amazing advances in equality of opportunity for all people in education and choice of profession, however it seems to me that many people get hung up on a perceived inequality of outcome. People are different. They make different choices for different reasons. That is the simple explanation for the numbers. *However* - Geoff Livingston was on-the-money when he pointed out that snub and you are pretty close with "Women and especially young girls need to be encouraged to take more risks, to start their own projects, to study mathematics, and to be innovators in technology. Women are not being challenged and encouraged enough in these areas." I would submit that everyone needs to be encouraged to take more risks and accept more responsibility for what happens in their lives. And we should all pay more attention to the content of a person's character rather than the composition of their chromosomes.

Hmmm. I always start reading posts like this with a little bit of trepidation, wondering just where it is going to go. Regarding the idea of a "gender gap" in blogging, tech, IT, PR, teaching or firefighting, my response is to think "So what?" rather than look for some conspiracy or agenda. Why is there a need for 'balance' in representation in any field? In particular I don't hear anyone clamoring for more women working on crab-fishing boats in the Bering Sea... Anyone with eyes to see should be aware of the amazing advances in equality of opportunity for all people in education and choice of profession, however it seems to me that many people get hung up on a perceived inequality of outcome. People are different. They make different choices for different reasons. That is the simple explanation for the numbers. *However* - Geoff Livingston was on-the-money when he pointed out that snub and you are pretty close with "Women and especially young girls need to be encouraged to take more risks, to start their own projects, to study mathematics, and to be innovators in technology. Women are not being challenged and encouraged enough in these areas." I would submit that everyone needs to be encouraged to take more risks and accept more responsibility for what happens in their lives. And we should all pay more attention to the content of a person's character rather than the composition of their chromosomes.

I am not sure that there is a real way to solve this problem. I mean being an entrepreneur is not somthing that can be taught or encouraged on a mass scale. To some it comes almost naturally, as they have no desire to work for others, Some realize that they are making others rich and decide to get a piece of the pie themselves, and some learn by living in a household of entrepreneurs. Whether you are male or female you can not depend on any company or organization to promote you to a power position. Most speakers, marketers, and successful people in general have that aggressive/entrepreneurial spirit, otherwise they would still be working for the man instead of speaking. Rising to the top and gaining the credentials that cause people to respect you requires a huge level of risk over many years, and people with the worker bee mentality will not get there. I know severl women who are entreprenuers and they are very successful. A few of them actually have migrated into public speaking and they are doing well in that arena as well (in their respective industries). I think that life is harder as a minority (females included) but if you get to the top of your game you will be respected and people will listen to what you have to say. At the end of the day money talks, and if you can help people get more money or grow their cause then you will be sought out. I can't say that women I grew up with were guided in any particular field, my COmputer Science classes often had more females than males, my Chemistry and Calculus classes had just as many if not more women than men. Even in my career as an IT auditor for a Big 4 accounting firm I was one of 2 male IT auditors in an office with 8-10 IT auditors. But I will say that as I go further in my career I have noticed more women falling off the wagon. I have seen female IT managers quit to teach school, or to become social workers/counselors. So I wonder if certain people ultimately are just cut out for non-technical careers. If a women madkes it to an IT manager level and quits to become a school teacher did the system guide her to that end or was that a personal choice based on what truely makes that person happy?

I believe in women support groups in addition to having male mentors as well. Like you know, I write for Gals' Guide, a women-oriented blog for twenty-something females transition into the next step of their lives. I think it is a fantastic online community where women try to help each other with life tips, etc. I fully support the community there. But I do try to reach out to both men and women mentors for growth in my career. I think both are essential.

Hi Amy- After re-reading and discussing, I do realize the broad nature of the post when trying to relate the tech, science and communication worlds. As a young pro in the PR and communications field, I was surprised by the amount of women in my classes (there was usually 1 male for every 18 female) versus high-profile males in the industry. Just from my observations, something seemed askew. Like you said, the best we can do is to keep chasing opportunities.

Sarah- The post was my hashing of thoughts on the subject and my observations. It is broad- and after re-assessing I realize that it could be split into two separate ideas (for sciences and marketing). I do believe there is some overlap with tech being so closely related to our communications efforts. I believe we should be trying to achieve our goals, despite gender. That's not a question. My purpose was to discuss how to encourage younger girls to look into more technology related fields.

I also want to add that to everyone talking about "new girls clubs" and women-only networking groups, I know lots of women want to think these are a terrible idea, but they're not. The point isn't to segregate women together away from men, but to create a support system. I joined one of these groups recently and it was one of the best career decisions I've made so far, and I've made a ton of connections with people I wouldn't have had the chance to get to know as easily because these women are SO supportive of other women in our field. Women-only groups aren't meant to replace other networking groups, but they supplement them and are a wonderful resource.

Carla - It's difficult for me to comment because your post tries to tackle several different issues. There's the issue of women speakers in social media conferences, which is somewhat separate from the idea of glass ceilings and workforce discrimination, and then the notion of girls being pushed away from science and technology careers is another issue entirely. Yes, they're all related, but in some ways only tangentially. I'll keep my comments to PR and corporate comms since that's what I know. Women are more prevalent in PR and communications careers, but often top positions are held by men (especially true in certain corporate communication roles). PR courses in college are flooded with women while the men are over in the business school majoring in marketing. PR is often ridiculed on TV and in popular culture and portrayed as party planners. There are more high-profile male PR bloggers than female. These points have been bandied around frequently on blogs. There's no silver bullet that's going to make everything right and balanced in the world. As women, the best thing we can do is pursue our passions and careers with the highest levels of professionalism and class, working hard to create the best results for our clients, and speaking up when we have something to say. As men, it's recognizing that women are sometimes inadvertently overlooked and committing to incorporating different viewpoints and giving people a chance to shine.

Diane- I think glass ceilings are gone for most industries, but there is still a gender gap to be addressed in certain fields. Are women just as capable? For sure. I was taught that I could "be anything that I wanted to be" as a young girl. But somehow everyone of my girl friends ended up in communications, teaching, or humanities while my male friends studied business, science and mathematics. Did any of us think about it at the time? No. Perhaps it is my personal experience (may be likely) but I did notice a trend. I think the key, especially with the ability of the Internet to work remotely and with vast resources, is to simply get the experience and skills that we need despite gender. I think it's about grasping the right opportunities, with the right skills, at the right time. Any organization, whether male or female centric, should focus on the skills, not necessarily gender. It seems like you are doing just that.

Lisa- This is why I love blogging, because you bring up a fantastic point. I don't think as women we are held back. At all. I know and believe that I or any woman can do whatever they want. We are passionate and driven and are just as capable as any man. But the fact that many women aren't choosing to go into more tech and science types of professions, for whatever the reason, is alarming. I'm not sure the reasoning why less women are encouraged to be in these professions and become entrepreneurs. There's a difference between being accepted in a field (which I don't believe is an issue at all) and the gap in the genders involved in each profession.

I think drive and skills launches a person to success regardless of gender, but it is true that men seem to have more leadership positions and get more speaking gigs. I don't know the answer, but this post was my first hashing of my thoughts on the matter. Your post about mentorship between men and women is a fantastic idea and I agree that it should be discussed more. I have always had more female mentors growing up, but recently have been working alongside a male mentor and I think it's made a difference both in my experience and his.

Nisha- I think you're right with the "apologetic friend" and perhaps it's something that we need to challenge internally as young pros. I see too many of my girl friends doubting themselves and their abilities- afraid to take a bigger step. What's necessary is gaining the experience and skills needed and taking risks.

Carla, your post is both too broad and a bit too self-pitying. While it may be true that fewer women are pursuing PhD's in some science fields, it is also true that more women are applying to medical school and law school -- both doctorate programs -- than ever before. For that reason, it is most difficult to gain admission to medical school (a process I know well) and law school as a young woman. I majored in government in college, a social science and male-dominated major, and regularly kicked my male classmates' bootays, and am continuing my career in medicine, a different scientific field. Having worked in a cutthroat Harvard Medical School lab for the last 2 years, Stuart often disagrees with the way that I conduct myself and deal with issues. But you know, it's a different way. It doesn't mean that we have to change the "way we were socialized" and have to learn to play in a boys' world -- it's just a different way. I think my way works better than Stuart's way. Let's stop perpetuating the stereotype and wasting our valuable female energy on feeling sorry for ourselves, and instead work on achieving our goals in life in whatever way works best for each of us.

As the leader of a women's organization, it may be surprising to learn that I am not a huge advocate of gender segregated groups. Each year I pose the questions, do we still need to exist? Should we change our name and merge with a non-women's group? And, how do we attract more male members? But, I continue to get push back our advisers and members. However, I do notice that we focus entirely on skill-building (much of it around social media), whereas in the past we worked on getting companies to adopt maternity leave policies (yes, that wasn't a given back in the 90's) and other gender-related issues. With regard to the knocks on new girl networks, I have mixed feelings. We started over a decade ago as a "new girls network" because we were not invited to networking events in our industries or at our companies. Nor were we invited to the "senior women's organizations" as we were deemed too young. So we watched our male peers being taken to conferences, golf and being mentored by senior men, and the senior women refused to return our phone calls. While many of us interacted with the senior men, it was limited as most found it awkward to meet with young women one-on-one. But, times are changing, as I can tell from my own experience and reading these comments. This is good news. So is there a glass ceiling? Yes, in some industries, at some companies, and in certain departments. Does talking about it make it worse? Only if done in a negative, self-defeatist way. I actually think that it will all be self-selecting. Women with talent will not stay at companies who don't recognize it. We won't be in this economic crisis forever, and when people are free to move about ... we'll see who comes out ahead in talent acquisition. Besides, the beauty of social media is that it's too new to have a glass ceiling! It's not like trying to undo 100 years of male culture. One of the biggest trends that is headed our way is that by 2012, experts predict that more people will be working from home than in an office. This means that productivity, not face time, will be rewarded. This bodes well for women and and really anyone who takes the time to learn social media and communication skills. I agree with the folks who say not to waste time worrying about a glass ceiling. Get out there and learn the skills you need to make it irrelevant.

I had a feeling you were going to jump on this post Lisa. I'm definitely glad you did. Girls have consistently smoked me in most aspects of achievement my total life. I have two sisters. I work in PR. In a lot of ways I've grown up in a world dominated by females. I see self confidence, desire, and knowledge as being the only barriers for entry into success within any given field. It's not about gender. It's about the person. We can't all kick as much ass as you Lisa right off the bat (although I kind of am on that level of consistent ass kicking). Carla is there in ability, knowledge and insight and is one of the brightest people I talk to on a regular basis. I think Carla is going to look back at this post 4-6 months from now and go: Why the hell didn't I think I was more awesome?

I would venture to say it is the other way around. Women get way more attention than men entering the marketing profession. A woman can walk up to a group of big shots at a conference and they will all listen to her. I know a lot of women in the industry that turn down speaking engagements they get offered so many.

I don't know you, but posts like this don't help woman. They reinforce the idea that we're held back. That women don't exist in tech. And that we're still living in a man's world. And that's a lie. If you feel like you had a hard time getting credibility when you first started, maybe it's because you were too shy, because you didn't put yourself out there enough or because you worked with morons. Honestly, I don't know. But I don't think it's indicative of anything besides *your* experience. I'm not an SEO but I work in the industry, and yeah, there are a whole lot of dudes here. I attend the conferences. I blog among mostly male bloggers. And they're all my peers and I've never been made to feel any different. When I was new and just starting out, I was 100 percent accepted. Gender didn't matter because I had talent. And though we're outnumbered some, there are a hell of a lot of women here. We're not kept in a corner. I don't mean this harshly, but I've read a lot of posts like these over the past few years and I just don't understand the point behind them. The only way you're treated different is if you allow people to treat you differently. I don't. So I'm not. Period.

@Carla A lot of ideas stirred up in the comments from that post...as well as when it was featured on Brazen. Women have body language faults that affect them, but what about men? That gender issue circled and circled. I welcome your comments to hear what you think, as well. Thanks!

My thoughts are all over the place on this. I think women have both advantages and disadvantages over men in the workplace. However, men DO hold most of the leadership positions in companies, from Fortune 500s to startups. And most of the speaking gigs. And seem to be the most popular/quoted/referenced on social media. Which is BS. But, what do we do about it? In the post of mine that Carla linked to, I said women should be mentored by men, not other women. That way, we'd learn to stop perpetuating stereotypes within our workforce. What do you guys think? I also think what Stuart brings up about the classroom is fascinating. Personally, I hated college, while most of my (female) friends loved it. But I hated playing by the rules and completing assignments. I wanted to experiment and tinker instead. I love having a business now because I get to experiment and make my own rules. But I'll admit that I've fallen into the trap almost every female entrepreneur falls into - not starting a big business. Females don't go for the startup capital, which is probably why they don't get to the same point as men, at least in the entrepreneurship world. Is that okay? Maybe. Women start businesses to have more flexible schedules that accommodate kids, and men start businesses to make more money and rule the universe. Like Liz said, it might just be a reflection of the inherent differences in men and women.

One of my co-workers a few weeks ago, who I consider a great mentor and teacher and who has a huge presence in the DC tech/social media space, said something to me that really struck a nerve for me: I was worrying about something and how it might affect other people, and she told me: "stop thinking like an apologetic friend, and start thinking like a businesswoman." She was right -- I tend to think like an 'apologetic friend' if you will. I think a lot of women do, and we have to change that in order to get ahead in our careers. Also, to Gillian -- I think very few people actually ever think about the glass ceiling in their daily lives. Of course you should go out there and do whatever you want. but you should be conscious of the fact that gender issues do still exist -- they're not completely gone.

It's great to hear everything you're doing in the Boulder area. I did see a vast difference in science/math majors versus humanities subjects by sex as well in college. I've heard of several of the organizations you mentioned and hope that there is even more of a push to encourage more women at a young age to be involved in the tech field. I think it starts at a young age. We need to encourage girls to look at a variety of different fields and not be afraid to be a part of a male-dominated arena (whatever that may be). Also, I came upon a post you wrote recently about body language and women (http://smallhandsbigideas.com/career/women-and-...) that addresses some ideas I had been toying with as well (I bookmarked and had been re-reading it recently as this idea stirred in my head). Thanks for your comment, Grace.

It is about putting yourself out there, and as a young pro, getting all the experience you can. May be it's more of a mindset about seizing opportunities. Young women (and girls) need to know that it's ok to take risks- and fail. It's part of a process.

My communication classes in the past had been a majority women, but I find (from casual observation) in the business world less women reaching top level spots and speaking gigs. Something is missing along the way.

Liz, thanks for your comment. I am a full believer that social media is a driver of relationship building and discussion, an area where women often excel. In my own life, I see many of my extremely talented girl friends in the start of their careers undermine themselves at work when they are just as capable. They may have the same opportunities as their male counterparts, but somewhere along the way their confidence in grasping these opportunities was challenged.

Bravo. (Even if you included Sarah Palin ;) ) It's not about gender. It's about attitude, drive, and knowledge about the subject. Just kick ass. Good things will happen.

Liz, I think the dynamic that Carla is talking about is the issues that women in the early stages of their career face. The competitive landscape is a bit different from the classroom and requires a certain amount of adjusting. Thus, a stumble out of the blocks might occur for some young woman (even if they are vastly more talented than some of their male counterparts). For me it was the exact opposite: when I left college it was a relief, finally I could play in an environment that was more open to innovation, experimentation and failure. The real world was awesome for me...because it didn't have any set rules (at least from what I could tell). As a male PR professional I am regularly the only guy in the room. I do think this gives me certain advantages (fairly or unfairly) because I bring a different viewpoint into situations. Backing down is another thing that I won't do without cause. While I feel that a lot of young women sometimes cede the floor to those who are more experienced. Is this a gender specific issue? I don't know...but it is one that I have noticed on more than a few occasions.

Carla this is a great post that hits on some important points. I work in technology and am part of the tiny fraction of women in my men-heavy company/field. Even in Boulder where we have over 170 startups (largely focused on tech and new media) there are a lot of meetups and groups, but none focused just on women. I attend a New Tech Meetup once a month and there are about 10% women in the room. I'm used to it, but why not focus on encouraging women to try this field? I've met with women about this (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-12789-Boulde...) and informally, a lot of us in the area will get together which is good but not enough. I also majored in PR in college and it was about 85% women while business was largely men. My smaller college focused on technology and had a lot of engineering focused majors. Again, very little women participated. In 2006, women earned 58% of all Bachelor's degrees, but only 20% of computer science degrees, 21% of physics and 20% of engineering degrees, according to the National Science Foundation. Those numbers show it all... I really agree with you to encourage younger students to learn the gender differences and to find an interest in other fields. Girls in Tech is a good organization and Girls Geek Dinner was another meetup that I enjoyed going to. I also find that meeting with other women working in tech, science, physics creates a strong sense of comradery. It encourages other women to step out. Great thoughts, I'm interested in hearing what other people have to say...

Forget the BS of gender inequality, just go out there will full force & show your stuff, men are secretly intimidated. I never, ever think about the 'glass ceiling' or anything that can get in the way with me preforming at the best level I can in the PR/Social media field. If women think about being timid and are nervous, etc, etc, then obviously their confidence will shoot down the tubes. It is all the mind - think of all the powerful women leaders, CEO's, mentors, etc, in this world (minus my favorite Sarah Palin, but even she has the guts to be semi-intelligent in public). Just put yourself out there - you only live once.

I've found that women are a dominant force in things such as social media, marketing and PR - because of their demeanor, approach and how they network. Business is still viewed as a man's world, because you see more male bosses than women. A lot of this, I hate to say, is because men can leave their feelings and personal thoughts at home. Women can be vindictive in the workforce. Not saying all (I can just see the feminists raging at me!) but it does happen. For those that don't, it should be a priority to educate and make that not the norm. Women weigh their personal lives on the same level as work - while many men don't. That is why blogging, conferences, etc - you see men. Really great post.

Carla: I so completely disagree with almost everything you write about. The playing field has been equal for some time now thought inherent differences in men and women continue for a reason - we ARE different. . . I've been in the marketing/business world for over 20 years now (with an MBA) and from my personal experience, women are not at any disadvantage. We all have the same opportunities to succeed as any man. Your premise that a gender gap exists even more so in social media because it's so competitive is completely baffling to me. If anything the stereotypical female of cooperativeness, understanding, working well in a team should excel in social media where engagement, discussion, and relationship building are the keys to success.